12 replies to this topic

[Bubba]

Hey Broni,

This is mostly addressed to you although I by no means wish to exclude ANYONE who knows about this subject. I'm DeathStalker at BC although I think you know that lol. SO here is my question. It will be long winded as I have a fault towards that.......

I started really "getting into" Windows with Vista. By that i mean trying to understand it as more than just an end user. As such I can't comment on the other Windows OS's but.......

In fixing computers for friends and trying to help others on sites like BC, I have noticed what I think to be a trend. Malware is wreaking havoc on the registry of Vista. People go through all the steps with the malware pro's to eradicate the malware, but then stuff just doesn't work right anymore. Has it been that way with the other MS OS's? Look at the last two people we tried to help. They had to go to the online MS help to get the right registry entries replaced.

Given that a large majority of people buy pre-built box machines that don't come with a Microsoft install disc, (they either have a recovery disc or a recovery partition) is it possible that this a deliberate act on the part of the malware makers? It gets even worse. When you buy a computer from someplace like Best Buy they want to sell you a service agreement. So in essence, you are separated from MS support by the big box computer maker, who assumes responsibility for the OEM Windows they put on the machine, and then FURTHER separated from any meaningful help by the big box store that SELLS the machine because they assume that responsibility from the maker. Unless the poor end user buys the over priced service agreement form the retailer, they are just screwed for software support and we can't help them through sites like this one or like BC. They don't have the disc with the program on it for a repair install, and WE don't have means to provide them that. Does that make sense lol?

So what's a brother to do? You tried to help me on a 80072EFD problem once I was trying to solve for a couple of people. One was a friend where I had physical possession of the computer and another was for someone on BC. You had a batch file but it didn't work. Nothing worked. I'm not kidding when I say I spent 200 hours on that problem, joined and posted at 15 tech sites, (including the MS sites) and STILL to this day have never been able to resolve it. Which brings me to another question.........

On my buddies computer with that issue, I had a thought but either never posted it or never had it answered. He had Vista home premium. I have Vista Ultimate (lol I actually have both the OEM AND the retail versions). His is an Aspire. Mine is a ME built so I actually HAVE the discs. Could I have popped my Ultimate disc in his DVD drive and done a repair install on his Home premium?

[...]

I want to ask the first part of this on BC (everything except the cryptodan part lol), but I'm not exactly sure WHERE to put it or if I've even "discovered" anything given my lack of knowledge of other MS OS's. Heck, I'm not even that good at Vista I reckon...........

One last thing. Do you "know" MowGreen? Like you, I have seen him on a bunch of tech sites and he always knows what he is talking about. I saw that at BC he's a malware guy, but I have NEVER seen him post anywhere else on BC. I know he posts a bunch at the MS forums though.........

[Broni]

I edited your post and I'm sending you PM, why.
My reply here is coming in a moment.

[Broni]

I've been dealing with malware issues for quite a while and I really can't see any pattern regarding particular Windows version.
Most malwares will make some registry changes, so I don't think it's specifically Vista related.
Problems with installing Service Packs (like in those BC cases) happen.
I personally had a problem with installing Vista's SP2 and my computer was never affected by any prior infection.
Also, in some cases, you can go through a whole curing process, the computer is perfectly clean and it's still not the same as it was before, or some features won't work, no matter what you do.
With some serious infections, sometimes, clean install is the best option.

As for Windows disks, it's been a trend for quite a few years, NOT to provide Windows disks with a new computer.
All I can say, it's a shame and I can't call it anything else, but a scam by computer makers.
I really don't understand why those disks are not provided, since they probably cost next to nothing for a computer maker.

As for MS support, it really never existed. Paid one, yes, but free one, no.
Only for last couple of years, for some reason (public opinion pressure?), they decided to provide free support for service packs and (I believe) IE8.

No, you can't use Ultimate disk on Home installation.
Windows version and even service pack installed must much those on CD/DVD.

...and no, I don't know MowGreen :)

[Bubba]

I'm not trying to start an argument but............

I think you should take note of what I said and keep it in the back of your mind when you are looking at problems. Yes, you had problems when trying to install SP2 as you stated, but they obviously were addressed and fixed by MS. The ones I refer to aren't. The problem on that one thread at BC I asked you to look at wasn't. The next one wasn't.

Maybe given my lack of experience in these things makes me a bit myopic but I don't think so. I'm helping a guy on BC right now who may be experiencing the same thing. Got some things to try before I can say that, but on the one I asked you to look at, I had already tried all those things. I was hoping in that case that you had something to try that I didn't, (you did have one thing), but it was the same result. It was the same result when I asked on multiple tech sites. I'm kind of a bulldog at times. When I get things in my teeth I don't let them go until I get them solved.

The solution may be so easy as running a repair install or a system file check with a legitimate Vista disc in the drive but that again is the problem. Most people do NOT have that option since they don't have an install disc. I think this is a growing problem that is being overlooked. I was once a reporter and as such, researched things to the n'th degree. I have researched MANY problems I had with Vista (which led me to helping others) and found that there was no solution other than a re-install. That's fine for me. I HAVE the discs to re-install because I build my own computers, but folks that buy their computers from the big box manufacturers don't have that option. There HAS to be something we can do to help them.

LOL I'm sounding like a crusader or something. I know I can't change the world, I just want to change my little part of it.........

EDIT: I THINK the problem after malware I have found generates error 80072EFD. It's effectively a BSOD as far as EVER updating a computer again.

[Broni]

As I stated before, I totally agree with you about computer makers not providing Windows disks.
In some cases, when "sfc", or repair installation is needed, a person without a disk is stuck.
Regarding "sfc", Vista and 7 are much better, than previous Windows versions, because they keep backups of most system files and Vista/7 DVD is rarely needed in "sfc" case.
However, repair installation of Vista/7 is surely impossible without a disk.
In that case, reinstallation may be the only option.

Now, my problem with SP2 was not fixed by MS. To this day, I don't know what caused it, but as soon as I performed "Safe Boot" (very limited number of startups and services running), SP2 installed right away. Obviously, some non-MS program was at fault.
Todays computers are so complicated, that sometimes it's next to impossible to pinpoint the culprit.

As for post-infected computers having issues...
1. It's not MS fault, that someone's computer got infected (Note: I'm very far from being MS fan :))
2. Some infections will cause irreversible changes, so even, when the infection is totally removed, some malfunctions are very possible.
3. Many, many people are simply totally careless and for those people, screwed computer is a very appropriate punishment. Some people should be prohibited from using computers.
It's not only about their computer being messed up, but they're a constant security danger for other people. How do you think infections are able to propagate? Because some idiots don't know what they're doing. It's like giving a car to a drunk.

[Bubba]

LOL I'm still laughing at the last part. You owe me for a new screen. I spewed the contents of what I was drinking on it when I started laughing and it shorted out. Add a keyboard to that........ as to the rest........

1and 2: no it's NOT MS's fault that people get infected, nor is it MS's fault that said infections cause damage. It IS MS's fault however that they don't allow for a way that folks who lose damaged registry to replace it. Let's face it. When you or I buy a computer with WINDOWS on it, and we have a problem with the OS our first thought is NOT that we need to contact Dell, or Acer, or BumScrew, whoever built the computer. We bought a MICROSOFT machine. MICROSOFTS name is on that puppy. (well you and I know better, but most folks don't). When you buy an APPLE, you call Apple and APPLE helps you. Yeah it's different licensing agreements, but MS is responsible for the crappy agreements they signed. Us third hand users don't know an OEM from a BFG (well gamers know what a BFG is lol.

It's hard to argue any further, because now that I think about it, many of the computers I have seen with irreparable damage DID have those fornicating theft programs on them like limewire. What do you call those things? Utorrents or something, the stuff thieves use to steal music, movies and software.

Maybe I need to rethink this. Maybe MS has introduced these viruses to combat thievery. Hmmmmmmmmmmm interesting thought........... I mean they developed the software, why couldn't they add some code to a theft site that disables it.........

[Broni]

Surely, MS is not a cute and nice baby, but what big business is?
It's a jungle out there and most of those big guys care mostly about their big bucks, not you, or me.

As for torrents...I don't want to judge anyone.
Do I use torrents? Yes.
Do I get infected? No.

If you don't know how to drink vodka, get some milk instead

[Keeper]

If you buy from a major Big Box store that provides support for their products (ie BestBuy) they will supply a disk for your computer only if you ask for it when purchasing a new computer.
In Vista there is a Recovery section (normally called RECOVERY (D:) )in "My Computer". I've never had to use it but thought I'd bring it up to see if it's any help.
A few weeks ago I had a similar problem being described here. I had reciently downloaded updates and started having problems using anything related to MS Live, messenger, my Live webcam, Live email. So after many days of going nuts trying to find out anything I found this, it was related to an update for my MS LifeCam and MS Messenger. See if Microsoft Audio, Communication Device, Streaming Media and Broadcast software update is in MS update folder, also chick the link I had found to also help me out. Hope this helps Blog link

Broni: If this is considered a Malware issue I didn't see that I couldn't post here....
Kenn

[Broni]

Quote

Broni: If this is considered a Malware issue I didn't see that I couldn't post here....

No, no, it's not...we're just talking....:)

[Bubba]

It's not a malware issue Keeper, it's an information issue lol. I'm trying to figure some things out and need info.

Oh, and Hi BTW. We've never been formally introduced. Oh wait, we still haven't been lol. That's ok, Hi anyways. Read your stuff in the battlezone (or whatever it's called).

EDIT: LOL Broni. you are faster than me EVERYWHERE........

EDIT2: You must be from Cali. We drink WHISKEY here in the South........

[Broni]

Quote

You must be from Cali

That too, but originally from Poland :)

[rokytnji]

I am half Ukrainian/Polski from the South and I drink Whiskey and Vodka, (minus the milk)

I have a Vista recovery partition on my IBM M57 Desktop. But Broni knows me well enough to know I won't surf with Windows.

That said. I have fixed Peoples Laptops here in Pecos using Puppy Linux Cds. I scan for malware first using fprot in Puppy. Because these boxes won't even boot to F8. Clean out what I can with a heuristic scan with fprot virus tool. Then when I can get to F8. Then do a repair install. Fixed a few (about 5) laptops this way in Pecos. You see, Puppy Linux can save changes to a CD like if it was a hardrive. You can install all kinds of stuff and have it at your beck and call. On a CD. All infected boxes had Limewire, That instant emailer I hate called Live Mail I think. Also Yahoo Live mail. So when they booted up. All these auto started programs with Attachments with God knows what would open the minute you got a Desktop. And run slow as molasses also.

I run Linux for a lot of Different reason. One is I learned how on my own. Broni watched me evolve over time. Now it feels creepy (just like a Windows user trying to use Linux) when I try and get around on a Windows box.

I am not a Windows fan. Personal choice is all. Like I said. I got a Vista recovery Partition on my Ubuntu Desktop. Just sits there. I don't need it.

Edit. Forgot to mention you can install Avira Antivirus in Puppy CD also.

[Bubba]

I have been "meaning to" learn Linux for about 10 years now lol and always keep putting it off. The last computer I bought came with 2 HDD's so I could load linux along with the windows it came with and I never did it.

I need to get off my fat butt and learn it. Especially now that I'm trying to learn the anti- malware stuff. From what I read an Ubuntu Live disc is almost a must for mobile malware removal.

All the "bad" cases I was referring to where the OS wouldn't work correctly also had limewire installed. But I haven't done enough cases to be able to say it's limewire. They all had that free trial of Norton as well. WHile Norton isn't exactly the best choice in AV (to put it mildly lol), it's not exactly malware either. Thus I can't go just on what I have seen as I have seen so little lol. That's why I asked.

BTW Broni, I found this KB. I wonder if that is what the MS tech used on RhonB's computer to replace the help files........ if it is, we now know where to find it lol.