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jram

Tough Talk and a Cowardly Vote

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jram   
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Investigators now believe that what initially seemed a workplace shooting in San Bernardino, Calif., was a well-planned attack by a married couple with at least some contact with Islamic extremists.

The evolving situation has forced Republican leaders and presidential candidates to contort themselves: talking tough on terrorism, yet ignoring the fact that the two were armed to the teeth with two .223-caliber assault rifles and two 9-millimeter semiautomatic pistols, and hundreds of rounds, all purchased legally.

While the nation suffered through the shock of another bloody massacre, on Thursday every Senate Republican except Mark Kirk of Illinois voted against legislation to prevent people on the F.B.I.’s consolidated terrorist watchlist from purchasing guns or explosives.

The measure has been introduced repeatedly since 2007. The Government Accountability Office has documented that over years of congressional blockage, hundreds of suspected terrorists on the watchlist bought guns.

Another bill that would have expanded background checks to gun show and online firearms sales to screen out convicted felons and the mentally ill also failed on Thursday. The four Republican senators running for president — Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul and Lindsey Graham — all turned up to vote against these common-sense measures.

“If you need proof that Congress is a hostage to the gun lobby, look no further than today’s vote,” said Senator Dianne Feinstein, who sponsored the terror watchlist measure.

In the hours after the attack in San Bernardino on Wednesday, President Obama specifically mentioned that legislation as an important security measure. “Those same people who we don’t allow to fly can go into a store in the United States and buy a firearm, and there’s nothing that we can do to stop them. That’s a law that needs to be changed,” he said on CBS News. The George W. Bush administration backed the terrorist-list bill in 2007.

No matter. The House speaker, Paul Ryan, issued his party’s weak defense of arming potential terrorism suspects on Thursday morning: “I think it’s very important to remember people have due process rights in this country, and we can’t have some government official just arbitrarily put them on a list.” Mr. Ryan’s Senate colleagues demonstrated that they are more worried about the possibility that someone might be turned away from a gun shop than shielding the public against violent criminals.

At the Republican Jewish Coalition’s conference on Thursday, the Republican presidential candidates offered little but political attacks. Senator Cruz immediately blamed Mr. Obama: “Coming on the wake of the terror attack in Paris, this horrific murder underscores that we are at a time of war, whether or not the current administration realizes it or is willing to acknowledge it, our enemies are at war with us and I believe this nation needs a wartime president to defend it.”

Gov. Chris Christie injected more fear: “The president continues to wring his hands and say ‘we’ll see,’ but those folks dressed in tactical gear with semiautomatic weapons came there to do something. We need to come to grips with the idea that we are in the midst of the next world war.”

From Jeb Bush, a bizarre slam: “The brutal savagery of Islamic terrorism exists, and this president and his former secretary of state cannot call it for what it is.”

And Donald Trump, true to his birther views, insinuated that Mr. Obama was hiding something: “Radical Islamic terrorism. We have a president that refuses to use the term. He refuses to say it. There’s something going on with him that we don’t know about.”

Since the Paris attacks, Republicans have been trying to outdo each other in describing how they’d crack down on global terrorism. But when a mass shooting at home calls attention to laws that put guns into the hands of suspected terrorists, they ask for a moment of silence, while taking action that speaks volumes.

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rokytnji   

Ted Cruz is known for talking out of the side of his mouth continuously.  Just my personal opinion. I would not buy a used car from him.

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jram   

This has to stop, it seems every week there is a mass shooting of some kind. No one is saying to take the guns away from everyone. Just have better back ground checks and close the loop hole that provides guns to persons on the no fly list.. This is how I see it Rep. = NRA $$$$ . I would think back in 1791 they didn't worry about mass killings or school shootings ... As much as I hate to vote for the Dems, I will never vote for a Rep. until some of these loopholes are plugged.. Gutless bastards that they are.

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Shay   

And no one in the crouds are allowed to carry and defend themselves.

 

 

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Sven   

President says: we need more Gun Control

This is the knee-jerk reaction of most Liberals to a crime like this.

However, I can see that we need to close some loopholes, like:

Every sale of a firearm, private or public, need a background check.

If the sale is from a private person, have a background check on the seller as well to find out if he is allowed to have a gun that he wants to sell.

Included in that background check should be any one on the no fly list as well as any person who was ever treated for any mental disorder.

If anyone is living with someone with a mental disorder or is on the no fly list, they should be required to give up their guns. See Sandy Hook shooting

If anyone purchased a gun for someone else, he should be held criminal liable if that gun is used in a crime.

If you by a gun for the first time, there should be a waiting period of 5 to 10 days to cool down. If you already have guns, you should be able to get it right away.

I am a gun owner and I have no problems abiding by the rules above, and I would guess that any responsible, law abiding gun owner, would agree.

 

Sven

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After all these tragedies, I'm sure most would agree that something needs to be done to protect the innocent citizens who are being shot at random.  When the 2nd Amendment was written, there was a genuine need for the possession of firearms.  People relied on guns for hunting and protection.  But the writers of the amendment could not have foreseen the nature of modern firearms.  Now there need to be laws passed to control these weapons.  Sven has listed several worthwhile laws.  I would like to add a restriction that would keep heavy military type weapons out of the hands of civilians.  I know that there are already enough of these weapons in private hands to destroy an entire country.  But, I believe that prohibiting future sales would mean that fewer such guns would be in circulation in the future.  And possession of such weapons could be made a criminal offense.  I have heard some suggest that heavily taxing guns and ammo might help, but this would probably result in a black market and/or only rich killers.  I don't pretend to have any real answer to the problem, but I hope that wiser people than I will put their heads together and come up with some laws that will help curb the number of these mass killings. 

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jram   

The loopholes have to be closed, better background checks..Right now a person on the no fly list can walk in and buy a gun, that's crazy..Stop the sale of fully automatic guns, armor piercing bullets.. There's a lot that can be done, nobody is saying you can't own a gun if you qualify and meet the requirements ..

19 hours ago, Shay said:

And no one in the crouds are allowed to carry and defend themselves.

It's worked great so far.. (sarcasm)  

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NickAu   

Australia has strict gun laws and we don't have mass shootings, I am not against guns I am against just anybody being able to own one, and some guns should not be allowed, Lets be honest here a mac10 or AR 15 is not for home defence.

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Shay   

My old winchester model 95 30-40 krag, has put a lot of meals on the table.

And my old single shot 12 Gauge, many a bird was gotten for the dinner table.  Mom paid $15 for it , 2nd hand , in 1941.

I was one of 8 kids sitting at the supper table and it takes some groceries to feed 10 folks 3 meals a day.

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On 2/25/2016 at 2:23 AM, NickAu said:

Australia has strict gun laws and we don't have mass shootings, I am not against guns I am against just anybody being able to own one, and some guns should not be allowed, Lets be honest here a mac10 or AR 15 is not for home defence.

I am a gun owner and have a conceal carry liscense. I obtained every one of my guns lawfully and train regularly in the safe breakdown, safe cleaning, safe carry, safe use, etc. Now, if every human were just like me, then we would have no problems right? Problem is, they're not. I am for re-visiting the rules and regulations, more stringent background checks, (I for one cannot wait to pay even more for the license and background checks) etc

but.... we have current laws that people break for instance, murder itself is against the law, yet people still commit this at an alarming rate with all kinds of implements like cars, knives,pipe bombs, poisons,hands,rope,garrote,water, etc and it's not stopping. My point? Sigh, I guess I'm trying to say is we have been killing one another in various form since the beginning. Yes, guns make it easier and quicker but piling more cost and more rules will not stop the killing. It simply makes it harder for someone like me to obtain legal and affordable firearm ownership. I for one do not want to kill another human even if they were trying to harm me or my Family, I do not want to take a life for any reason.

Guns are not the problem, people's hearts are the problem. I'm not talking about religion either. You don't have to be religious to be friendly and kind.

 

 The Aussie argument is no good for me, simply because of math and the laws of probability. Australia population=24,617,883  USA=326,194,723  (wow, as I was writing this the population for the US rose 6 points) http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/us-population/

 

http://theconversation.com/australias-gun-numbers-climb-men-who-own-several-buy-more-than-ever-before-58142

Edited by xrobwx1971

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NickAu   
Quote

It simply makes it harder for someone like me to obtain legal and affordable firearm ownership.

I disagree,  In Australia at least legal guns are way cheaper than illegal ones.

 

Quote

Illegal firearms have more than tripled in price in the past two years forcing criminals to share guns, police say.

Semi-automatic handguns were the weapon of choice for underworld figures and prices have risen from $2000-$4000 to more than $15,000, a senate inquiry into illegal guns heard on Monday.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/world-business/black-market-guns-triple-in-price-20141013-115f08.html

 

Legal guns

https://www.gunworld.com.au/glock?manufacturerId=461

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by NickAu

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Quite a difference in price in the US hence my comment above about affordability. https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/12955/Firearms/Handguns/Glock/Glock+G34+G4+17%2B1+9mm+5.31

Criminals actually pay for guns in Australia? That's kind of stupid, if I were a criminal, I would simply steal one. I mean "I" wouldn't, but if I was going to commit a crime, involving a gun that I would most likely ditch somewhere, I'd just steal it. If it's not economic and efficient, it causes me anxiety, crime or otherwise :)

 

Anyway, that's my perspective. I don't live in Australia so I can't intelligently speak to each nuance of the issue because of this. I just fall back on the math. Heck, I live in the US and I don't know every single thing that happens here either.

I want see all the variables. I want to know all the numbers. That's my problem with the whole issue. People per capita, guns per person per capita, mental illness numbers, gun murders per capita, etc, etc. We could go on and on copying and pasting the links that we like or that sounds good to us per our perspectives and still be at round 1.

I truly think my statement above is the issue, it's a heart problem. I wish people would stop hurting and hating each other, for whatever reason.

 

:beers:

 

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rokytnji   

Isis affiliated Terrorists don't fare well in Texas.

 

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